tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC September 29, 2018 12:00am-1:00am PDT
night from nbc headquarters here in new york. nbc headquarters he in new york. ♪ tonight it is on hold, the tonight an "all in". >> look at me and tell me what it doesn't matter what happened to me. >> survivors storm the capitol > and high drama ensues in the senate.an >> i will only be comfortable moving on the floor until the fbi has done more investigation than they have already. >> after brett kavanaugh and the senate and the president repeatedly refused, there will now be an fbi investigation into the credible sexual assault no allegations against the supreme court nominee. >> somebody's got to explain this to trump. i guess that will be my job. >> tonight, how the president's hand was forced. >> the vote was a positive vote. but there seems to be a delay.
>> what we know about what the fbi will be investigating. >> mark judge was a friend of he ours in high school. >> and reaction from the family of christine blasey ford. >> i am here today, not because i want to be. i am terrified. >> when "all in" starts right now. >> i am here because i believe it is my civic duty to tell you what happened to me while brett kavanaugh and i were in high school. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, it is not over. one day after the nation watched transfixed and horrified, a senate hearing unlike anything anyone has ever seen, and after it appeared that judge brett kavanaugh was on a gop party line path to confirmation to the united states supreme court, despite testimony by dr. christine blasey ford, that he sexually assaulted her, a monumental turn of events today, a bipartisan agreement to delay the final vote on kavanaugh for, an investigation and an order on president trump to conduct the investigation. senator jeff flake at the center
of today's remarkable developments and protest to this morning's judicial vote. >> what you are doing is allowing someone who actually violated a woman to sit in the supreme court. this is not tolerable. >> after more than an hour of cameras lingering on a committee room in which senators were often seen whispering to one another, senator flake announced his request for an fbi investigation as a condition to a full senate vote on judge kavanaugh. more on those stunning minute by minute developments in a moment. but it soon became clear that senators lisa murkowski and susan collins were with him. within hours the judiciary committee issued an astonishing statement. i read it here. "request that the administration instruct the fbi to conduct a supplemental fbi background t investigation with respect to the nomination of judge brett kavanaugh. the supplemental fbi background investigation would be limited
to current credible allegations against the nominee and must be completed no later than one week from today." and soon after that, from president trump, an order to conduct such an investigation "limited in scope and completed in less than one week." all this as brett kavanaugh's high school friend, mark judge, the third person allegedly in the room during the sexual assault of christine blasey ford said through his lawyer "i will cooperate with any law enforcement agency that is assigned to confidentially investigate these allegations" the senate just passed a motion to begin debate on kavanaugh. they are now in recess until monday. the next vote on kavanaugh will not occur until after the fbi sends its findings to congress. senator mazie hirono of hawaii is a member of the judiciary committee. she joins me now.
what is your read on what happened today? >> what happened today was finally a senator who was so disturbed by the process and the prospect of someone with this ppnd of cloud being sent to the supreme court decided that he needed to do something about it, and along with chris coons who is a good friend of his who reached out to jeff, we were able to come up with a process that's going to result in an fbi investigation, which the democrats on the committee have been calling for for what seems like months. but, of course, the fbi investigation has to be complete. it can't be some sort of cursory kind of an investigation that gives cover to some wavering senators. it's got to be real. i expect them to put forth the resources that they need to do their jobs. >> i want to zero in on that cover. a cursory investigation that gives cover to wavering senators. that's an interesting phrase. is that your fear o what is
going on here? >> well, i want to make sure anat this is serious business, rsory t and that they do what they need to do which is, of course, to talk with mark judge and to really question him as to what kind of an environment of partying and drinking was going on. because judge kavanaugh denied all of this. and, in fact, he said, at the hearing, that the three people who were there, including mark judge, had all exonerated him. no, they did not exonerated him. they all said they couldn't remember. that is very different. any judge should know there's a difference between i can't remember what happened from it didn't happen. >> right. >> so they need to query all of these witnesses as well as give us a much fuller, more accurate picture of what was going on. because judge kavanaugh's portrayal of himself as a person who just studied and did service projects, went to church, did athletics, is contradicted by people who knew him in both high acool and college.f >> what role do you think -- there was a lot of protest, tremendous mobilization by lots of people, and particularly a lot of survivors, i think, in the last two days.nd >> yes. >> they've been on capitol hill,
they've been calling, showing up, protests today outside senate offices. does that have an effect inside that building there?ts >> i think it does because this is a moment of huge change for our country. how are we going to treat survivors of these kinds of horrendous acts? and this is a moment when all of the people in our country who have experienced so many of them, it's all coming back to them and they see this as a moment for them to come forward and tell us and share us the truth of their pain. and i don't see how we, as w hol decision-makers can ignore that kind of pain that is going on throughout our country. and it is all part, i would say, of the me too movement.oi >> let me ask you this. you were a no vote before the allegations surfaced, right, on brett kavanaugh. >> yes. >> for substantive reasons. on the question of whether he did what he is alleged to have done, are you even -- are you persuadable? is the fbi report going to change your mind about how you
feel about what you saw and heard yesterday? >> i found dr. ford's testimony and her account so credible because there were indicators of credibility. for one thing, she has nothing to gain from coming forward like this.e her life has been upended. she talked about this attack long before judge kavanaugh was ever nominated. she took a lightning detector test. i also knew that up to today there was not going to be any kind of independent fbi investigation so i believe her. and we need to go forward. you know, these survivors not only need to be believed -- well, they need to not only be heard, but believed. i have all kinds of other substantive reasons for why i was against judge kavanaugh's nomination in terms of his lack of support for reproductive choice, definitely not a friend of environmental protection laws, very expensive views of protecting the president from criminal or civil
investigations. and so there was a pattern to his decisionmaking.ch e f and he also misstates the holding of a case. he misapplies cases. he misstates facts. that's all part of his credibility. and, of course, this newest set of reports, that also lends to his lack of credibility, in my opinion. >> let me ask you to respond to what he said today after basically there was -- i was surprised, somewhat, that the white house, everyone just said, well, okay, we'll go along with this. this is kavanaugh. "throughout this process i've been interviewed by fbi, done a number of background calls directly, and yesterday i answered every question under oath the senate asked me. ifr done they have requested and will continue to cooperate. what do you think of that?en c >> i think the most telling thing is he was asked time and again yesterday that his hiding behind the president who was not going to call for an fbi investigation, hiding behind republicans who were not going to call for an investigation, for him to say i'm willing to to
cooperate, i will do whatever the committee says, knowing full well the committee was not going to request it and he was asked time and again, how about you? g you can break this impasse. will you call for an fbi investigation? f and he would not answer. see, that's very telling. because the people who came forward, the three women, they said we want an fbi investigation. >> right. >> senator mazie hirono, thank you so much for taking some time with us. >> thank you, aloha. for more, i'm joined by chris murphy who is here in new york in person. >> good to see you, chris. >> what is your -- what is your constituent response been like in the last, say, 24 hours? >> yeah, absolutely overwhelming. and obviously the main focus is on my constituents' belief that
dr. ford is telling the truth a and that brett kavanaugh throughout his testimony seemed to have a very loose grasp of the truth, even with respect to some minor details about his high school days.e t but i've got to tell you, i got just as much input about his tone and his tenor. there were lots of people who were calling our office, e-mailing our office about the h idea that anyone, republican or democrat, would allow somebody to get onto the supreme court who is this political, who nakedly claimed in front of the committee that this was all just a liberal, democratic, pro-clinton conspiracy. >> revenge for the clintons. >> revenge for the clintons, something he didn't have to say in order to defend himself against these specific charges. i would say i was a little surprised that there was as much concern about his demeanor as there was about the specific charges. >> so yesterday i felt like we witnessed -- there's a lot of ways to parse yesterday. but a lot of people felt like something was wrong and breaking. wrong in that it felt like there was a kind of torture that was being imposed on dr. blasey ford, the weirdness of the prosecutor who was hired and d then discarded and also just a sense that people -- that
there's some kind of profound legitimacy crisis we're watching happen in slow motion. you're a member of that body. do you feel that way? >> you have to compare this back to prior similar hearings. the anita hill hearing you had 20 plus witnesses that were called spanning several days here. you had two witnesses, even though you had other eyewitnesses who could add a lot to the discussion. so it does feel like something is fundamentally breaking. and i almost appreciate the fact that the republicans in the end took the mask off. they stopped allowing their prosecutor to ask questions. they decided to turn it into a big political show because you saw what their end game here was, not really getting to the truth, but doing whatever was necessary to try to jam him through. >> you know, today, chris coons and jeff flake got together on this compromise. and there's a lot of people, i y
think, who sort of harken back to those days and they really want to see the senate function. a lot of people were watching on the outside, a lot of citizens, very active citizens, how couldn these people be friends with each other? i'm so furious i'm screaming at the tv. psychologically and emotionally, how do you conduct yourself in that body with those twin impulses? >> yeah, so one of the first things i did when these allegations broke was i went to one of my friends is one of the most conservative senators in the place, just to sit down andh hear him talk through how he was processing these allegations. and -- >> that's interesting. >> yeah. and so i think it's important to put yourself in the shoes of folks whose prism is different than yours. and i think more of that happent in the senate than you think. and i think we have an understanding about the fact that our world views are different. our constituencies are different. and frankly, the ecosystems we exist in are different, sitting every day in the republican caucus listening to fox news is very different than what happens
to us. and so i think that allows for some -- >> you get the truth every night. >> i get the truth, exactly. but i think that there's a little bit more of that ability to put yourself in somebody else's shoes in the senate than folks might think and it allows for moments like today to breakthrough. >> but at the same time you have to balance that against the sense that there's a sort of procedural max mallism that just keeps getting worse.sere fresh in the mind of a lot of people are merritt garland. republicans feel, in good faith, based on my interviews are conservatives and talking to them, that they have been completely sabotaged, it's an ambush, hit job, where does this go, particularly around fights for the supreme court? >> so i wish my republican friends would understand better the unique circumstances of these sexual abuse cases. >> yes. >> i can understand their frustration about the lateness of many of these -- >> the timing, yes.
>> allegations and claims. but there is something unique about this kind of claim that i would hope they would understand. >> i wanted to scream at the investigation yesterday, get it, totally, stipulated, timing's terrible, listen to what she's saying. listen to what she's saying. >> if this was a claim about a guy misrepresenting his income on a mortgage, and that came out two days before the confirmation vote then, yeah, you might have a contest. this is something unique and different. >> do you -- what do you see happening this fall? we're 40 days away. you're running for reelection. as are many other people. what -- how do the sort of politics of this moment connectf to that day in november? >> yeah, i mean, the fury is real out there. and i feel -- >> do people yell at you for not fighting hard enough? >> sure, yeah, all the time, all
the time. and i just think that ultimately there's a bit of a tipping point, especially among women in which they watched the way in which she was treated. they watched the fundamentally different way in which not only was he treated, but he was allowed to act, a way that she never -- that dr. ford would never have gotten away with. and that fundamental unfairness, at there's no way that doesn't have an impact on the polls, not unlike it did in 1992 when many women who serve today in the senate, like dianne feinstein were elected. >> it's going to be a very different place come january. it's fascinating. like running a social experiment, for the best. senator chris murphy, thank you very much. >> thanks a lot. >> a dramatic and really extraordinary day on capitol hill that really needs to be seen to be believed, how it all went down step by step next. went down step by step next.
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as we have discussed the confirmation vote of brett kavanaugh has been delayed and the fbi will be investigating the allegations. if you were not near television this morning and early afternoon you may have missed the dramatic events which played out to bring us to this moment. after the wrenching hearings yesterday on capitol hill the country woke up to the news that senator flake, after watching christine blasey ford's harrowing account of being assaulted by brett kavanaugh, and kavanaugh's combative rebuttal that flake decided his critical vote would be a yes on kavanaugh's nomination to the supreme court, meaning confirmation was all but assured. not long after, on his way to
take the vote that he had pledged that morning that deflated so many activists, jeff flake was confronted in a senate elevator by two women, two survivors in anguish over his decision. >> what you are doing is allowing someone who actually violated a woman to sit in the supreme court. this is not tolerable. >> that's what you're telling all women in america, that they don't matter. that he should just keep it to themselves because if they have told the truth they're just going to help that man to power anyway. that's what you're telling all of these women, that's what you're telling me right now. look at me when i'm talking to you, you're telling me that my assault doesn't matter, that what happened to me doesn't matter. >> inside the committee room democrats staged a last ditch effort to produce some of the evidence that republican majority has blocked. senator richard blummen that is all -- >> we cannot in good conscience
vote without hearing at least from mark judge. i would submit with all due respect, mr. chairman, that there are other witnesses essential for us to hear from. but today i am moving that we subpoena mark judge. >> that motion was quickly voted down. and after a contentious roll call vote to proceed on kavanaugh's confirmation later today, some democrats just got up and walked out. >> it's very clear that the republicans will break every norm, every rule to get this person on the supreme court. this has got to stop. so i walked out. >> you know, one of our colleagues talked about this
being a sham. this is a sham what's going on in there right now. >> the remaining senators forged on with committee business, speechifying about the confirmation process. as the 1:30 vote deadline approached, something strange started to happen, flake got up from his seat and left the committee room, bringing two democrats with him, chris coons and amy klobuchar. and flake would proceed to stay in that chamber out of view of cameras for over an hour. dianne feinstein got up to join him and the business of the community ground to a halt. senators and staffers kept going in and out of the side room where flake was holed up where colleagues on either side of the aisle whispered together as 1:30, the scheduled time for the vote came and went. c-span 2 picked up feinstein on a hot mic talking to chairman chuck grassley about flake, something about him being able to "force it." no one watched had any idea what that might mean until flake reemerged into the committee room, this time coming in with a demand. >> i have been speaking with a
number of people on the other side. we had conversations ongoing for a while with regard to making sure that we do due diligence here. and i think it would be proper to delay the floor vote for up to, but not more than one week, in order to let the fbi continue to do an investigation, limited in time and scope to the current allegations that are there. and limit it in time to no more than one week. and i will vote to advance the bill to the floor with that understanding. >> okay. so the understanding is, there's got to be an fbi investigation to further look into this in a week. but will the president of the united states actually order that fai investigation? will mitch mcconnell hold to the deal? minutes later the president reacted to that dramatic plot twist during a meeting in the oval office? >> mr. president, any comments on the requested delay from senator flake. he wants a one-week delay. >> i'm going to let the senate handle that.
they'll make their decisions. they've been doing a good job and very professional. i'm just hearing a little bit about it. i've been with the president of khile and we're talking about special projects. >> conceding he wasn't attaching any formal strings to the measure. he simply wouldn't support kavanaugh in the final vote. he seemed to imply, though never quite said, without an fbi investigation. flake would not be able to block kavanaugh's confirmation on his own. he's just one vote. democrats would have to flip one more republican and hold their entire caucus to get to that 51
vote majority. over the course of the afternoon republicans lisa murkowski and susan collins and democrat joe manchin all announced they, too, supported flake's move. so unable to "plowright through" as mitch mcconnell put it last week, republicans asked the white house to reopen kavanaugh's fbi background check. and this evening, the president who has said that wasn't the fbi's thing, complied. it's safe to assume that right now at this very hour fbi agents have begun investigating the allegations against brett kavanaugh. and mark judge's beach getaway may be coming to an end. that's next. be coming to an end. that's next.
to but not more than one week in order to let the fbi continue to do an investigation, limited in time and scope, to the current allegations that are there. >> it was that moment, that statement from jeff flake this morning that prompted republican is that rights in the white house to finally agree to let the fbi investigate allegations of sexual misconduct against supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh. to give us a sense of how that investigation would play out i'm joined by jill wine banks and christine lucius. christine, the judiciary committee statement saying "the supplemental fbi background investigation would be limited to current credible allegations," how do you see this going with someone with familiarity with the process? >> so i've reviewed hundreds of background reports conducted by the fbi for pending judicial nominations. in my experience what happens is the fbi goes out and interviews a series of people and they do a summary of those interviews. and any other evidence that those interviews lead them to. so what i think happens next is that the fbi will go out and not
just interview the two witnesses that the committee heard from yesterday, but the witnesses who would have been there or could corroborate the evidence that was discussed at yesterday's hearing. but as i'm sure you know, what's different about this is it should have been done before the hearing. what's happened today is the decision to send the fbi out to do its supplemental background check after the hearing has already occurred, which is strange. >> i will note that i think it was 13 days ago that dr. ford first came forward and they're doing it in a week. they could have just assented to it in a one-week timeline back when she came forward. >> exactly. >> yeah, that would have made much more sense. that's how it's supposed to be done.
all of the examples i've worked on where the fbi was sent back out to do a supplemental background check it was done well before the hearing so that senators could be prepared for hearing questioning. >> key person here is mark judge. he submitted one letter and then submitted another statement, he's got another statement that says he talks about the allegations in the swetnick affidavit being categorically denied. he also says the following "i do not recall attending parties during 1981 and 1983 when i fondled or grabbed women in an aggressive or unwanted manner". >> he may not remember much because of his alcoholic condition at the time. >> which he has written about and has been in recovery. >> those are things that the fbi needs to investigate. they also need to investigate when did he work at the safeway
because that's linked to about six weeks after -- >> that's right. >> the event and that's another way of identifying the date. we need to look at timmy's house from july 1st. the fbi has a lot of things to look at. but that involved dr. mark judge and p.j., and was in the time frame that it could have been. so who is he and where did he live and does it look like her drawing of the house? >> this is the july 1st kavanaugh calendar, tobin's house, workouts, go to -- for skys. christine, how quickly can the fbi do this? let's say they want to talk to six or seven or eight witnesses. can they fly around and get this done in the next seven days? >> well, i think that they can move very quickly. i also want to make clear i don't think this investigation is just limited to dr. blasey ford's allegation. >> great point. >> senator coons and senator flake had a colloquy during the committee's markup today and they said the sexual assault
allegations of dr. ford and others, the ones that were in front of the committee. i don't think it's just going to be about that one allegation. and, in fact, it should not be because the other two credible allegations of sexual assault have not been investigated and there was no witness to testify to them yesterday. >> i will say julie swetnick's claims, which are really quite remarkable and extremely troubling if true, have been -- the kind of scope of them that kavanaugh and judge would drug women or spike punch, that they would -- that there were, you know, groups of men that would assault women. that -- the kind of details have been taken as up so facto evidence, or ridiculous. this is a great place for the fbi to bear down and do some investigating. if they are ridiculous or fabricated, you would want the fbi to do those interviews. >> if he were innocent, he would have said to senator durbin yes, i want the fbi to investigate. that's what innocent people do. the fbi will go out in an impartial way, will find out the evidence, find out the facts and we can all know whether he's telling the truth or whether the
three women are telling the truth. they may find more women. they should also, of course, interview his college roommate who said he was often incoherent and dead drunk, he bragged about having sexual conquests, even though he claims he was a virgin well into college and for years after. we need to know these things, not because we have an interest in his life, but because he may be a deciding vote on the highest court of our land. we need to know who he is. he's already shown he can lie about a lot of little things. and some of them are really things that give you a clue to his character and to his lying, his pushing back and interrupting and being rude to senators. his questioning klobuchar. and i think one other senator, maybe coons, about what they like to drink. those are clear signs he's evading answers. and lying. his pushing back and interrupting and being rude to
senators. his questioning klobuchar. and i think one other senator, maybe coons, about what they like to drink. those are clear signs he's evading answers. and lying. >> all right. jill wine-banks and kristine -- thank you both for being with us. how is dr. ford doing one day after her testimony on capitol hill. two of her family members join me next. y members join me next. sooner or later, we all sign up for medicare. and like my dad,
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i am here today not because i want to be. i am terrified. i am here because i believe it is my civic duty to tell you what happened to me while brett kavanaugh and i were in high school. >> christine blasey ford told the world yesterday that judge brett kavanaugh sexually assaulted her while they were in high school, an accusation kavanaugh denies. today dr. ford has turned away from the spotlight back to her life as a professor, a wife and a mother. i'm joined by dr. ford's sisters
in law, thank you for making some time. the first question that millions and millions of americans have, is how is she doing after yesterday? >> yeah, she's hanging in there. i think it's a day to recover. >> i think she's getting back to her life, reuniting with her children, and probably taking stock. >> how much have you all in her inner circle followed today's knews. the lawyers put out a statement. are you happy to see that the fbi will be doing some further investigation? >> yeah, i think it's really the most next step. so i know, christy mentioned that a number of times, and we heard some really strong statements made by some of the senators and we were really happy with that news, uh-huh. >> yeah, very grateful to senator flake and to everybody that has been willing to discuss this issue with appropriate importance. >> you know, a lot was made in the committee hearing by republicans about the letter and who leaked it. who betrayed your sister-in-law's confidentiality. i wonder, is that something she's focused on? is that, at this point, something she's spending a lot of emotional energy on? >> i sincerely doubt it. christy's been very sort of stoically preparing to tell her story with all the emotion and implications for her life. so i really doubt that's getting much attention. >> does she -- i mean, i'm sure she knows this, but i also know that she's been preparing in
this kind of insane, you know, situation, she's moved out of her house. like what yesterday's testimony meant to millions of people, particularly women, particularly survivors of sexual assault, is that -- is she hearing what it meant for people to watch her do what she did yesterday? >> yeah. yesterday was, i think, a really important day for a lot of people. we've heard from so many people about this. and i know she has also been flooded with people thanking her for coming forward. and i think something that was complex about yesterday was that she came forward. it was a brave thing to do. it took all of her energy to do that. and i think it's just hard to have that be followed with claims that having that hearing was a national disgrace. you know, i think that that was hard to hear. and i think she was brave. she's participating in a process that is meant to ask questions and explore candidates. yeah, i think that was hard what was disgraceful about that? >> what was your reaction to the second half of that testimony yesterday from the judge? >> well, i felt like the judge was so busy having emotions and avoiding simple yes and no questions that i feel he was avoiding putting together a narrative that would help us understand his perspective, how
he knew christine, what his life was like, who he is as a person. i felt he was extremely defensive and just really avoiding dialogue so that nobody could get inside, further inside of his life. >> a final question, do you know how dr. ford felt about the prosecutor from arizona that questioned her and whether she felt that that was appropriate or she did a fair job? >> i don't know about that. >> i don't know how she felt about it. but i thought that woman did a decent job. >> thank you for saying i don't know, which i really appreciate. a lot of times people just pretend they do. thank you, thank you very much yeah, i think that was hard what was disgraceful about that? >> what was your reaction to the second half of that testimony yesterday from the judge? >> well, i felt like the judge was so busy having emotions and avoiding simple yes and no questions that i feel he was avoiding putting together a narrative that would help us
understand his perspective, how he knew christine, what his life was like, who he is as a person. i felt he was extremely defensive and just really avoiding dialogue so that nobody could get inside, further inside of his life. >> a final question, do you know how dr. ford felt about the prosecutor from arizona that questioned her and whether she felt that that was appropriate or she did a fair job? >> i don't know about that. >> i don't know how she felt about it. but i thought that woman did a decent job. >> thank you for saying i don't know, which i really appreciate. a lot of times people just pretend they do. thank you, thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you for having us. dr. christine blasey ford told the senate yesterday she was terrified as she did her civic duty. still to come, the enormous effect of her bravery, what it's >> a final question, do you know how dr. ford felt about the prosecutor from arizona that questioned her and whether she felt that that was appropriate or she did a fair job? >> i don't know about that. >> i don't know how she felt about it. but i thought that woman did a decent job. >> thank you for saying i don't know, which i really appreciate. a lot of times people just pretend they do. thank you, thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you for having us. dr. christine blasey ford told the senate yesterday she was terrified as she did her
civic duty. still to come, the enormous effect of her bravery, what it's had inside the halls of congress and beyond. given everything we've seen this week and how many are feeling it is as good a time as any to get involved and also to enjoy some fantastic music, which is why activists and music fans alike will descend upon central park tomorrow for the seventh annual global citizen festival.
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given everything we've seen this week and how many are feeling it is as good a time as any to get involved and also to enjoy some fantastic music, which is why activists and music fans alike will descend upon central park tomorrow for the seventh annual global citizen festival. we're watching the likes of janet jackson, cardi b, john legend. coverage begins at 3:00 p.m. on msnbc. up next, more coverage of how dr. blasey ford's testimony is already affecting change. dr. ford, no matter what happens with this hearing today, no matter what happens to this nomination, i know and i hear from so many of my own state of vermont, there are millions of victims and survivors out there who have been inspired by your
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under that enormous light in front of all those men, and her bravery has reverberated throughout all of american society, has been in fact contagious. during her testimony, people were literally calling into c-span of all places to share their stories of survival. the rape and incest national network tweeted today the number of people helped by the national sexual assault hotline was 201% above average yesterday. in san francisco and chicago and other cities, protesters took to the streets to support dr. ford. protesters were out in full force in front of the supreme court and capitol hill, including female members of congress who stood silently in protest at this morning's judiciary committee hearing. after jeff flake said he would support kavanaugh this morning, he was confronted by a pair of sexual assault survivors. maria gallagher and anna maria. she had never told her story before, not even to her own
mother. >> you're telling all women that they don't matter, that they should just stay quiet because if they tell you what happened to them, you're going to ignore them. that's what happened to me, and that's what you're telling all women in america, that they don't matter. they should just keep it to themselves because if they had told the truth, they're just going to help that man to power anyway. that's what you're telling all of these women. that's what you're telling me right now. look at me when i'm talking to you. you're telling me that my assault doesn't matter, that what happened to me doesn't matter, and that you're going to let people who do these things into power. that's what you're telling me when you vote for him. don't look away from me. look at me and tell me that it doesn't matter what happened to me. >> after that, flake called for an fbi investigation of the kavanaugh allegations. joining me now, jessica valenti, and senior vice president for social justice, maya wily. that elevator moment was one of the most incredible things i've ever seen. >> yeah. >> both in terms of courage and in terms of the moral urgency of the witness, and in fact i think it changed the course of what happened today. >> it did. every woman i know, i've been on text all day, watched that multiple times, cried multiple times. it's so difficult to watch, but it's so powerful, and it did feel really invigorating. i'm so grateful to them every time i watch it, i just feel so
grateful to them. but i also feel so upset that women have to continue to lay bare their pain again and again, and it just makes me sort of furious. how much trauma do you want from us? how much do we have to bleed until you recognize that this is really bad, that this is really happening, and that we're human. i mean, it's just so distressing. >> yeah, i know anna maria, and i've known her for years, and i didn't know she was a survivor. >> right. >> and i learned about it today on television, and i personally can say that i was extremely concerned yesterday that the outrageous statements of senate republicans about how horrible they felt about how brett kavanaugh had been treated when he was essentially asked to account for some very serious allegations was absolutely one of those moments where i thought we already know that almost two-thirds of people, men and women, boys and girls who are victims of sexual violence do not tell, do not come forward, that this is exactly what the message was going to be. so to have them take that action to say no, actually, we're going to make you accountable, and we're going say things that we haven't actually necessarily said before, but in an aggressive way. we're not just going to be nice. >> look at me when i'm talking to you. >> look at me. >> i got to say, as a civic moment, that's democracy in a nutshell.
like the difference between a free republic and a free society and tyranny is that you can say to a united states senator look at me when i'm talking to you. >> yeah, yeah, it was a powerful moment of democratic action because it's a moment of saying those of us who you think you can act with impunity on certain people and populations, but we're here and we're in the public square. >> and you have to look me in the face. >> and we're not going away. i think one of the things you're seeing with all this organizing is a lot of organizers right now are realizing we are organizing in the shadows of a dying world. we're organizing in the shadows of a society -- >> that's real heavy. >> that is transitioning into something else, and their rage speaks to the fact they're outraged that they can't act with impunity. this is a story that has a long history from settler violence, jim crow. this is a long history of bodies you thought you could act with impunity on and you can't. and there is an outrage that is maybe not even understood fully consciously, but it's deep, it's deep and it's historical and >> look at me when i'm talking to you. >> look at me. >> i got to say, as a civic moment, that's democracy in a nutshell.
like the difference between a free republic and a free society and tyranny is that you can say to a united states senator look at me when i'm talking to you. >> yeah, yeah, it was a powerful moment of democratic action because it's a moment of saying those of us who you think you can act with impunity on certain people and populations, but we're here and we're in the public square. >> and you have to look me in the face. >> and we're not going away. i think one of the things you're seeing with all this organizing is a lot of organizers right now are realizing we are organizing in the shadows of a dying world. we're organizing in the shadows of a society -- >> that's real heavy. >> that is transitioning into something else, and their rage speaks to the fact they're outraged that they can't act with impunity. this is a story that has a long history from settler violence, jim crow. this is a long history of bodies you thought you could act with impunity on and you can't. and there is an outrage that is maybe not even understood fully consciously, but it's deep, it's deep and it's historical and
organizers are challenging it right now. >> there is an amazing book coming out on tuesday called "good mad" that is about women and fury, and particularly in this political moment. everyone talked about this yesterday. but the difference. >> yeah. >> in how she was and how he was and male anger and what male anger means. if she had come into that being like screaming, they would have literally called security, literally. if she had been like i was sexually assaulted and how dare you republicans. >> it's worse. she would not have been credible. >> right. >> he can come out completely disrespectful, not judicial, right, looking -- senator klobuchar, that exchange was simply nothing short of deeply, deeply sexist and disrespectful in a way that i can't imagine a sitting judge would have done in public, and yet that behavior became why he was credible. >> yes, that's a great point. >> passionate.
>> that that imbued him with authority in that moment. >> yes. >> in fact, he was performing the authority. he was performing for white house. >> i also kept thinking when i was watching him, these hearings have broken him you. think of all the resilience of these women who have experienced trauma and tried to repurpose that trauma into some kind of knowledge or grace. >> it's a great point. >> and he is shattered. i think that's something the senator is willing to think about. this man was broken yesterday. i think he's not capable of being the kind of judge. i think he is shattered in a way that we're going to be thinking and talking about for a long time. >> because he didn't get what he wanted, right? because he was actually having to answer for something. i mean, it really was just epitomized for me entitled white male rage, right? and backlash. it was like a moment of pure backlash that wasn't just about this moment in this hearing but was about what's going on more broadfully the country right now and men being held to account.
>> in a world where a lot of white men and women and populations who have been on the different side of the story also are appalled. they're disgusted. so even whiteness and masculinity isn't doing what it used to do because white -- a lot of people are white anti-racists and men who are against toxic masculinity. whiteness isn't doing what it used to do. that's all i'm saying. >> it was partly -- you know, it felt so connected to sort of the moment, the trumpian moment, right? here is someone who -- and even just sort of constructing this narrative for himself like at one point he says, like, i got into yale law with no connections. it's like you went to the finest prep school in d.c. and your father was a lobbyist and your mother was a judge. god bless them. i'm not hating on that, but you were among the top, top most privileged people in the country. >> but also, that makes him incapable of doing violence against women. >> yes. >> showing some highlights from his cv means that well, i'm a good person. i went to yale. >> or i was an athlete. >> and i know 65 women. >> let me just say this. at some level it's inescapable who you believe here.
if you do believe that he is not guilty of what happened, then he is angry about being falsely accused, right? there is no way around. you can't get around the central question of who you believe, because for those who believe he is falsely accused, all of the rage makes sense, right? >> or not -- not following -- we are in the privileged position of following all the details of this. >> right. >> even going back to 2004 and the confirmation hearing in 2004. so those of us following that level of detail say, as ben franklin said, half a truth is often a great lie. and he has been more like -- he has had less than half of truth. so what that means is we see him differently. the public who doesn't have that level of detail just sees emotion. >> i will say this, we do not have polling on all this, and
not like polling is the most important thing in the world. i am desperately curious about what people believe in the wake of that and how the gender split's happened and all of that. i don't know. i really don't know. i know how it read to me. does " catch us every week night right here on msnbc. she was a person out of a 40s film noir movie. with life full of mystery to match. >> she was a stunner physically. she was able to say jump and the men would say how high. >> married to a wealthy lawyer. >> he always said she has this hold over me. >> but there was someone she seemed even choserer to. >> they bought matching underwear together. >> they shared everything. >> they're eating together, they're sleeping in the same bed together. she's living at her house. >> did they also share a deadly secret? >> it was a lie triangle, and one of them had to go. >> but was it her idea?